Wobblers syndrome

[bernermom]

Hello to all!  I'm a new user, so I'll be learning more sophisticated methods of writing.  But for now, I am hoping that Shadow and Miah are improving.

Last summer, our 9-month-old Bernese Mountain Dog Ursi was diagnosed with panosteitis after showing pain in her front legs.  Previcox didn't seem to help her, and by late October, she was unable to walk at all.  We diagnosed here with our local vet, and he referred us to a specialist 60 miles away.  The specialist gave us a range of possible ailments, from meningitis to spinal dystrophy.  We agreed to sponsor the diagnosis on the chance it was something that could be resolved with medicine.  However, having raised two other Bernese for their entire lives and having experience with two surgeries (artificial hip that was marvelous, and an amputation because of cancer for our second Berner), we knew from the start that we would not agree to surgery.  The Myelogram indicated a spinal problem at C6 and C7, and they diagnosed Wobbler's syndrome.  The surgeon recommended surgery (of course!) but could not give us a hopeful prognosis and told us that the recuperation period would mean a year of keeping her quiet!  (Quiet???)  We thought we wouldn't see our little Ursi again.

However, the Dr. started her on a course of prednisone--heavy dose at first, and tapering.  After two months, she's taking 5mg prednisone daily, walking, playing, and back to asking to take walks of many blocks with us.  Our vet refuses to act as optimistic as we are, but right now we see our little girl improving daily, and we will taper her completely off the prednisone.  If the condition recurs, we will begin another course of the drug.

This drug has worked miracles for us, and we are enjoying every day that Ursi is well.  She does wobble when she walks, and she can't hike with us or pull a cart as we had hoped.  However, she is alive and happy.  I hope that other wobbler parents will take heart from our story!

[K9 Obedience]

Thank you so very much for sharing the good news with us. My vet has never suggested using Prednislone so I have made an appointment to see if he will perscribe it for Shadow. I believe that seeing as Shadow is in such early stages of Wobblers, maybe this drug will do the same for him and at least slow the disease down. Please keep in contact with us and let us know how your dog is. Any information or tips on helping dogs with Wobblers will be gratefully recieved. Mostly I do not think about Shadow being ill until he is noticably in pain or his legs wobble around when out walking. Sometimes when I am getting cross with him as he is always hiding one of my shoes, which means I never have a pair to wear!!!! he looks at me with that dopey Dobe face that says, Duh I love you I do, I shed a few tears as I know my time with him is limited. I still cannot commit myself to having him operated on despite the vet pushing me to. So anything that may help is welcomed. Thanks again and Happy New Year to you all.

Dog Lover.

[Kelley]

Hi and welcome  .

I'm so please to hear that Ursi is doing better, the farmer who owns the stables where I keep my horses has a Bernese called Rosie - she is soooo cute and like a big teddy (well a teddy that likes to pinch your carrotts! ). 

Miah is currently on prednislone same as Ursi and is getting a quarter of a 25mg tablet a day to see if this will show any improvements to identify any damage left over that wasn't identified with the operation.  Over the last week she seems to have grown in confidence and is trying to walk, its only been 10 steps or so each time but its the first time she has continued to walk unsupported so they seem to be doing something.

I've spoken to the vet about our options, and he said he now thinks it hasnt returned to another disc but is possible scar/ fibreous tissue left over that is affecting her neurologically and pressing on her spinal cord.  I've asked why this would be the case and he has said that because we had caught the wobblers early and Miah was walking, he wasnt as aggressive with the surgery as he would have normally been if the dog was paralysed, as he didnt want to go right through to the cord due to the risk of damaging it further.  I can fully understand the reasons for this and agree with why he did it, but i've had friends and relatives say that he should be responsible for it, which is causing all sorts to run through my head. 

I've found out I could be looking at a bonus of over £2k at work which has really made my decision regarding the surgery for me, i'm going for it.  The bonus was totally unexpected so I'm hoping its some sort of fate finally smiling down on me - wishful thinking and trying to stay positive is helping too. I'm just not sure if this is going to impact my relationship as my partner thinks that I may be putting the dog through more surgery that wont work again, but I have to try one last time as, like you k9, I just cant face the thought of her not being here, especially as she is young and spritely still.

Sorry i've not been on over Christmas but I just wanted a week or so to be able to have some time away from worrying about the future.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Give Shadow a big squishy hug from me!!
Kelley & Miah
x

[K9 Obedience]

Kelley

When I recieved notification of your post I didn't really want to read it as I thought the worse had happened. I am SO SO glad that Miah is in fact improving on the prednislone. I agree that the vet should be responsible for the next operation. Yes he made a decision that he thought to be the right one, in not removing as much tissue as he normally would but he now realises that he should have removed more and whilst we cannot blame him for his first decision, he should still waver all costs of the next operation, or at least meet you half way!!!!! Have you put this to him? Trouble is with vets, they know how much we love our pets and they can really charge what they like. My vet has said he will not perscribe any more zubrin until I pay for a consultation fee and have Shadow examined again. Seeing as the diagnoses has been made and Shadow is not going to be operated on I do not feel I should have to pay a £24.00 consultation fee just for him to huff and puff about having the op! Also I asked for a perscription for the zubrin so I could buy them off internet sites much, much cheaper and he will not agree to that either. If I get a perscription from my doctor it is up to me whether I use their pharmacy or go to the high street ones. Why then is this not the same for vets? I pay for the consultation and the perscription so by rights I should be able to go to any veterinary dispensery. Once a year I go to Crufts at the NEC and there I can buy a years worth of worming medication and flea treatments exactly the same as those perscribed by the vet for half the price. It is more profitable for me to pay for tickets to Crufts just to get the medications I need for the dogs, (and have a smashing doggy shopping spree as well) Zubrin only comes on perscription. Surely their must be some kind of veterinary body that has a say in what prices can be charged at vets or who you can contact to make a complaint!! There again veterinary professionals know that we are all scared to say anything to them even if we disagree with what they are saying. Why don't you try, (in the nicest possible way) to get him to meet you half way with the costs. As to ruining your relationship, well if there is even the hint of that happening then your partener does not love you unconditionally. Miah is your dog and ultimatly you have the sometimes awful task of making the decisions for her. Of course we need input from our families but we should have their support if the decision we make is not the same as theirs. My daughter thinks I should do anything the vet suggests just to give Shadow a few more years in whatever conditions. Yesterday whilst out walking, Shadow met another Dobe youngster whom he loves to run, and wrestle with. As they were leaping up in the air, Shadow yelped loudly in pain. A few seconds later he was back on form and putting this lively youngster in his place. Now what should I do? Should I call Shadow to me and not let him play with his friend? To do so would be restricting his quality of life and this I cannot do. Already I have stopped him leaping into trees and I don't let him carry huge heavy logs or his dumbell so as not to strain his neck. Shall I now start curbing his every move?? He would not understand why I keep calling him back and why he is walking sedatly beside me. He would become miserable and depressed, constantly thinking that he had done something wrong. No. I have made my decision not to have him operated on and not to change his lifestyle. He is my wonderful, Dobe and no matter what the future holds or how long I have left before making the ultimate decision to have him put to sleep, Shadow will enjoy his life to his full potential....

Dog Lover.

[bernermom]

Kelley,

It sounds to me as though Zubrin is the same sort of NSAID drug (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug) as previcox or rimadyl.  In our case, Ursi did not improve on that, because it wasn't treating what was wrong, apparently.  The prednisone is a corticosteroid anti-inflammatory, and it's doing well so far.  We (I mean Ursi) are on 5mg per day and she's acting totally rambunctious and well.  By the way, prednisone is a very inexpensive drug and much less than the others you've mentioned.  Do you have Wal-Mart where you are?  In the states, Wal-Mart sells these generic drugs for $4 US for 30!  Quite good!

Now we have to get back to working daily with obedience!  She's been so spoiled for the past few months that walking calmly, sitting, staying--all those required basics for an 80-lb. dog--have quite disappeared!  How I hate to go back to the training bit.

I wish you luck in negotiating with your vet.  It might not hurt to get a second opinion.  If there was negligence, in the opinion of another vet, you might have a better position with the first vet.  Good luck.

Carol

[Big Dog]

Hi Kelley (and K9),

Sorry for being away too. I got a nasty bug on Thanksgiving and it wiped me out for most of December.

Kelley I'm very happy to hear both of the status of Miah and your bonus. The economic pressure we face trying to do the best of our friends is part of the cruelity any health issue or the aging of a very senior dog places on us.

Without the $ or pound or Euro pressure, we'd only face the overwhelming issue of trying to figure out what is "right!" And I know you all know how very challenging that can be.

Wishing the whole pack great good health and happiness in 2007!

[K9 Obedience]

Sorry to hear you have been unwell Big Dog. Everyone seems to be coughing and sneezing here in England too. I reckon it is down to the stress and overwhelming hype that surrounds the Christmas season. Much safer to be like the Dickens character Eberneezer Scrooge and say,

"Bah Humbug" to it all.

Glad you are feeling better. Get plenty of fresh air and exercise and drink loads of honey and lemon in hot whisky. (Oops sorry I meant Water)

Dog Lover.

[K9 Obedience]

Carol. Thanks for your post. By Wal Mart I assume you mean the big supermarket chain. Here in England we cannot buy generic drugs for animals or humans over the counter. This means the veterinary practises have complete control over perscribing. The only substances you can by for pets are the weaker commercial brands such as Johnsons. I tried to get a second opinion with my dog but the vets close ranks to protect each other. The only option is to travel to a different county and register with another vet. Then it gets even more complicated as you need to give an address and name the previous veterinary surgery. Hopeless!!!!

Dog Lover.

[bernermom]

We can't purchase these drugs over the counter, either.  But this large store has designated a lengthy list of generic drugs that they will sell to any person with a prescription (or dog with a prescription!) for the modest cost of $4US.  One still needs a prescription, but our vet has been very accommodating in providing these.  Ursi is doing so well that we are tapering the dosage even further, so we needed smaller mg tablets, and our vet was very good about it.  Next week, we'll go to 2.5mg every other day, and the week after that perhaps 2.5mg every third day--and finally nothing at all.  Then we'll watch to see what happens.  We pray that all will continue to be well.

We continue to be comfortable with our non-surgery decision.  My brother's dachshund became paralyzed in the back legs, had the surgery this week, with no benefit.  This is such a personal decision, of course.  Our best to all of you out there who are dealing with this.

Big Dog has asked me to post pictures, so I'm still investigating just how to do this!  Perhaps soon you will see Miss Ursi in all her rambunctious splendor!     

[K9 Obedience]

Great to hear Ursi is still doing well on the drug. As to posting pictures, Big Dog gives such excellent instructions which I am sure that  99% of people can follow. Alas I have still not mastered the technique of uploading photo's despite almost daily attempts. I am sure that I must have sent photo's of my dogs to some obscure site in Timbuktoo but as yet none have reached the dogexplorer site. I will have a nice cup of tea and try again, hope you are more computer literate than me!!!!!!

Dog Lover.

[Big Dog]

Sorry to hear you have been unwell Big Dog. Everyone seems to be coughing and sneezing here in England too. I reckon it is down to the stress and overwhelming hype that surrounds the Christmas season. Much safer to be like the Dickens character Eberneezer Scrooge and say,

"Bah Humbug" to it all.

Glad you are feeling better. Get plenty of fresh air and exercise and drink loads of honey and lemon in hot whisky. (Oops sorry I meant Water)

Dog Lover.

Dog Lover -

Many thanks for the good health wishes!

I think you've got my direct e-mail address - if need be - you can e-mail the pics to me and I'll put them in the gallery for you.

Carol - The step by step instructions for the dog picture gallery are at this link.

If you run into any trouble or place the images in the wrong album, no fear, just ask for help here on the boards or send an e-mail or PM.

The hardest part is remembering to place the image as you go through the upload and caption step in the correct breed or activity album.

The Bernese Mountain Dog album is empty at the moment - would love to have your pups be the first.

Once the pics are in the album, you can also place them in your posts here in the forum.

And I'm very happy to hear how well Ursi is doing. I've spent a bunch of time with my friend from the Swissy community and her contacts and I've asked several times if anyone had useful info for you. So far, uh, not so much I'm afraid.

Sorry about the result with your brother's dachshund. I love those little dogs but the spine issues seem epidemic. Whenever you see an advert for the doggie wheelchairs it seems its a dachshund in the picture.

Kinda like the tragic lifespan of Great Danes. It would kill me to live with a wonderful dog for such a short period of time. Each Dane I've met has been classic example of a wonderful, friendly and affectionate dog.

[Kelley]

Hi all

Apologies that I havent been around for a while, however there's been quite a few things that have happened that i've had to sort out.

Firstly, after a long discussion with my boyfriend, we had agreed that we wanted to go ahead with a 2nd operation (as discussed with the vet) to try and see if we could improve Miah's mobility.  I contacted the vet and after leaving 3 messages and waiting a week as he was 'on leave', he finally got back to me.  I mentioned that we had had time over christmas to think and talk through the options and we had decided that we might want to give a 2nd op a try, however wanted to know how much it would all cost so we could try and get the funds together.  After a conversation where he wasnt very forthcoming he promised to get back to me.  Now almost 3 weeks after this, he still hasnt 

Fortunately in the 2nd week when I was getting more and more frustrated, Miah has started to move a little more.  She can walk from the bottom of my garden, right to the top (over 300 ft) on her own and is now getting up to eat and drink herself after i've bought her a different raised feeder that she can now get her legs right up to.  We even managed to walk around to my dad's house last week without me having to half carry her, she did it all on her own 

I've also seen a couple of friends who havent been round for a month or so and they have commented on how spritely she is and that she seems to have more muscle tone, whereas before she seemed to be losing it.  I've spoken with my normal vet and he is happy that Miah isnt in any pain and as long as we are comfortable with her being as she is, he thinks she has accepted that she is slightly disabled, but still agrees there may be room for improvement.

All sorts have gone through my mind like, has the vet decided he wont do it because he doesnt agree with what we're doing, but if not why has he let it go on and why hasnt he told us??  Or is it more because i spoke to him about the financial situation where we dont have any insurance and may have to look at a repayment scheme and also suggested the possibility of it being cheaper seeing as the 1st attempt failed etc??
I think this is why I spoke to my normal vet as I thought I could keep a clear enough head to be able to see when it was time for 'Rainbow Bridge' but with the way he had treated me I thought i'd better get a 2nd opinion just to be sure.

So at the moment its looking like we're taking one day at a time, like Shadow Miah does have good and bad days, however the good seem to be outweighing the bad and the improvements are short but seem to keep coming.   

I hope Shadow and Ursi are both doing ok

Love and big hugs
Kelley & Miah
x

[bernermom]

Kelley and Miah,

I was so happy to see that my computer apparently saves all the new postings, so that when I hovered over the DogExplorer.com icon, I saw the list of newest postings!  Isn't technology wonderful?

It is good news that Miah is moving better.  I think that sometimes these problems create downward spirals--the more hindered are the dog's movements, the weaker the muscles become.  So, reversing that trend seems like a good thing.

I think the lack of response from your veterinarians is deplorable!  However, it has given time and space for other things to happen, so perhaps there is a bright side.

Ursi is doing very well these days.  We tapered her steroid down to almost nothing, and she slowed down appreciably; on advice of our vet, we started her back with a high dose and cut back immediately, with a really quick taper this time.  The vet explained that we are seeking the optimal dosage for maintenance, and we'll be able to tell at what point she begins to do worse.  It looks as though we're at 2.5mg daily.

We're going on a trip for three weeks, and our wonderful neighbors have invited Ursi to stay with them all that time.  I fear that they'll never ask again, since she's fairly high maintenance, being a puppy and all.  However, we've had daily 'therapy' sessions in which we visit our neighbors with Ursi and she can get used to them and their two little (snippy) dogs.  By Tuesday, the Urs and their dogs will probably be OK.  It is just so great that she won't have to be at the kennel for such a long time, and she'll have people she knows to love her and all.  Huge relief!

Kelley, don't be intimidated by those two vets!  If you must, find somebody else.  They shouldn't be in the companion animal business if they can't empathize.

Hope Miah continues to improve.  Perhaps spring and summer will give her an extra boost.  (One other thing--we're giving Ursi glucosamine and condroitin from over the counter.  Can't tell if it helps, but it can't hurt!)

Carol

[Kelley]

Hi all, apologies for the quick message but I need some advice. 

It's come to a point where I may need to start thinking of putting Miah to sleep. She hasnt improved and has stopped moving around on her own too.

I''m just wondering if I'm doing the best thing for her keeping her alive.  She is still very alert in herself but i'm not convinced that she is as happy as she was. 

I'm very emotional at the moment anyway as a close friend lost her dog and it really hit home that my days with Miah are numbered.

I cant stop crying and it's affecting my work and home life with the states that i'm getting in.

I overheard my mum talking to the neighbour and she said that she wished I would just put her to sleep as she couldnt cope with this anymore.  This has really hurt as I dont know if my mum is seeing her the same way that I am.  She still plays with my Jack Russell and is happy to eat and go out to the toilet, however it's really made me question my decisions.

I know I probably know her best and around me she is ok, however my mum is very small and I think Miah realises she cant hold her weight and so doesnt go to greet her and waits for me to get home before she moves.

Please let me know what you think as i'm in pieces that i'm not doing the right thing

Love
Kelley

[Kelley]

We had Miah put to sleep earlier today.  Hopefully she's at Rainbow Bridge at a better place.

She deteriorated over the last week and due to the strength of the steriods had started passing blood in her faeces.

Thanks for all your guys support, i'll keep popping on to see how Shadow and Ursi are doing.

Sorry it's so short but i'm crushed.

Kelley