Wobblers syndrome

[K9 Obedience]

Two weeks ago I noticed that my Doberman had a swelling on his lower leg, and he was yelping in pain occasionally. Took him to the vets who thought he might have an infection in the bone and perscribed antibiotics. I wasn't too happy about the diagnoses and when after takning the antibiotics the dog was no better, I returned to the vet who then x rayed the leg for suspected bone cancer. You can imagine how worried I was. Couldn't sleep, eat or concentrate on anything. I cried when the nurse told me it wasn't bone cancer but only arthritus as the dog had broken both legs as a puppy and arthritius had set in as a result. My happiness was short lived as yesterday when I saw the vet he examined Shadow throughly to determine why the dog was so in pain as it was not consistant with mild arthritius. I think deep down I knew what he was going to say, Shadow has early Wobblers syndrome. A Dobe owners worst nightmare! A malformed bone in his neck is causing pressure to build up between the vertebrae, which swells out and pinches the nerve. At this early stage is hasn't damaged the nerve enough to cause parayalises, but I am aware of the long term prognoses. I was wondering if any one else has had experience of this disease in their Dobes as I would welcome any input?

  dog lover.

[K9 Obedience]

Shadow was perscribed Zubrin, two tablets once a day, as an attempt to reduce the inflammation and sweeling between the cerviacal vertibrae. He is now passing blood in his faeces, and looks quite lethargic. I read the enclosed leaflet and it does warn of this as a side effect. I do not want to put him on Rimidiyl as it has bad press as well. At the moment I am giving him Asprin 200 mg twice a day, as the vet has gone on a golf tourament as no one else seems to know what to give Shadow. Please can anyone let me know if they have any ideas of what to give him. There must be a natural remedy that can reduce inflammation, but I can't seem to find one on the net.

  dog lover.

[Kelley]

Hi

I'm new here and found this post searching for 'wobblers syndrome' on the next.  My 6 year old dobe has all of a sudden developed an arched back and is stumbling mainly on her hind legs, however the fronts are slightly affected too.  I rushed her to the vet yesterday and the vet thought it could be a neck strain he has suggested that it could be a sign of wobblers.  She's had an anti-inflammatory injection which has seemed to help her overnight, however she is still stumbling very slightly on corners.

I've got some cortizone tablets with more anti-inflammatories, but i was wondering if anyone knows of any other thing i could do at home to help, or if anyone has any advice i would be grateful.

K9 - I am thinking of you at this time, and I hope you've got help from somewhere.  I'm in a similar situation now as I'm just waiting for the vets appointment next week to see how the injection and tablets take affect.  Luckily I am insured and so will have the option of surgery if required - but I dont want her to suffer, I just want my old lovable Dobe back!

Good luck and wishing you and your dobie all the best - i've got everything crossed for you hoping that it goes OK.

Kelley
x

[K9 Obedience]

Kelly, my heart goes out to you. It does sound like Wobblers, unless you know that the dog has had an injury, or fallen awkwardly. Wobblers does come on very quickly, at least the noticable signs do. I have looked into having Shadow operated on but knowing what it entails, I have decided against it. The operation consists of a washer, (just like a tap washer) being inserted between the offending vertibrae in the neck. This relieves the inflammation that is pressing on the nerves and causing paralysis. First the recovery time is around three months, where the dog must not move around too much. Secondly as with any operation there are risks both from the gas and from the possibility of accidently damaging the spine. Thirdly, the operation only lasts around one year, before the bone grows and swallows the washer. The operation cannot be repeated. I have decided it is not worth putting the dog through such trauma for such a short time, especially if he is going to be in recovery for three months. I have myself reduced the quantity of Zubrin, (painkiller+inflammatory) to half mornings and evenings or when Shadow seems uncomfortable. The bleeding, (a side effect of the tablets) has ceased and Shadow is fine. I must say it is only in early stages with Shadow and perhaps I would not have realised anything was wrong except for the fact that I had taken Shadow to the vet for a bump on his leg. He runs around as usual on his walks, and only yelps occasionally as the trapped nerve gives him a twinge.
What you can do to help your dog is to avoid letting him jump up, or over anything. It is not so much the upward movement but as the dogs head moves as he lands that makes Shadow cry out. Also another thing is to use a harness instead of a collar, so there is no pressure on the neck. Here in the UK we have, "walk easy" which is a harness that stops the dog pulling but the central point is on the side of the body instead of the neck. It has worked wonders with Shadow, who I must admit does like to be out front, when on the lead. Another thing is to raise water and food bowls. I have purchased a double metal stand, for both food and water. Doberman, being deep chested dogs should never be fed at ground leval anyway so as to avoid bloat, (gastric torsion)

As the wobblers gets progressivly worse the dog will lose control of first the rear legs then the front. Shadow does, "wobble" but has not fallen down or been distressed at all. He still chases rabbits and loves to find things for me. He found a massive log yhis morning and carried it around for ages. One thing I have noticed is he has difficulty going down the stairs and moves very slowly instead of bolting down. I was worried that he might suffer later but I am reluctant to change his quality of life too much. I want him to do everything he always has as I really believe it is the quality of life that matters and not the quantity.

I am reseaching on the net to try and find anything that may help Shadow and have come across information which talks about gold beads being inserted into the dog at various acupuncture points.
www.wholepetvet.com/goldbead
dobermanpages.com/wobblers
I think this may be worth trying. Life without my Shadow will destroy me.

    dog lover.

[Kelley]

Hi K9

Well its been confirmed, she has wobblers.  I was referred to an Orthorpaedic specialist (Torrington Vets in Huddersfield, Yorkshire)and he confirmed it yesterday.  He was brilliant, he tested her reflexes and spent 2 hours watching her walk etc.

He has said its mild but then asked me how long she had dragged her claws on the floor which she has done for some time, possibly anything up to 6 months ago, and he said thats the first signs, and it sounds like its just progressed to the next level.

It sounds like we've had some different information given as although he told mne about the option of splitting the verterbrae in 2 he said it would fill in itself, he also mentioned some options about drawing the liquid out that had leaked or putting a screw between the bones to keep them together, this will then allow the bones to naturally fuse together.  There wasnt any mention of taking bone from else where.

The problem i've got is that shes already showing a reaction from the tablets shes on and shes only been on them 10 days, so i'm limited with those options going forward.  Luckily I met someone who had had their op on their dog 3 weeks ago.  She told me that the swelling had burst causing the dog total paralysis and so brought him where i was.  He had the op and within 3 days of coming round he was jumping in and out of the car.  So this is what i'm going to try.

Miah (my dobe) is booked in for her op on Monday 21st August.  The vet offered to do it there and then but like yourself I wasnt sure if I wanted to put her through it.  He has mentioned that there are risks such as it may come back on one of the other vertebrae surrounding where the op was, but he has suggested raising her food off the floor (which she already has) getting a harness and not a collar (going for one today) and limiting the up and down action on her neck as much as I can.

I've decided to give it a chance and have been told that its going to cost approx £3500 - £3800, luckily I have insurance but its limited to 12 months per condition, and although I really dont like thinking this way I dont want to have to face the option of having it done 12 months down the line if she deteriorated and then not have the insurance to pay as I dont think I could afford it.

I've spoken to my mum and my partner and my mum says she would like to give her 1 chance with it, but my parnter isnt keen, he thinks she should be left, so its come down to me to decide.  I've been in dire straits for the last 24 hours as the vet is still telling me I can bring the op forward or I can cancel all together and try drugs.  I just dont know what to do.

I've read some pages online where dogs have had the op and they're great, but then have seen others where they've managed with wobblers for their lives and are just a bit unsteady.

Well got to go as i'm already welling up again!

Best wishes and good luck - i'll try and come back and tell you how it goes.  Hope Shadow is ok too.

Kelley
x

[K9 Obedience]

SO sorry that what we thought was right. I did hope that maybe your dobe had got a temporary injury but sadly this was not so. I am glad that your vet suggested the same ideas that I had as raising the food and water dishes and using a harness. I can hardly bear to think about what is happening to my Shadow so I know how traumatic this is for you. Did your vet say the same as mine as regards the recovery time after the op and that it usually only lasted 12 months??? I havent heard anything about this fluid being drained so I did a bit of research on the net and cannot find anything about fluid and wobblers!!!! All I know is what I feel personally and we each have to make our own decisions. Yes it is nice to hear advice from your mother and your partner but and this is a big BUT, you and you alone must make the decision based on how you feel. I can give an example of something that happened to me recently. My daughter had gone on her first holiday since having the children. All the dogs went into kennels where my other daughter worked. The dogs were fine until one of them, a big GSD got bloat. The dog was rushed to the vet where he was operated on and by some miricle survived with having his spleen removed. I couldnt contact my daughter as they were in the sea swimming and did not hear their mobile. I had to make a decision whether to go ahead and have the dog operated on. The dilemma was that the GSD was nearly twelve years old and it was feared he would not survive. Well he has but for how long??? He now has a weak heart and is still in recovery. You see where I am heading. Sometimes it is better to try and think with our heads and not our hearts. It would have been better to end the GSD's suffering there and then and not put him through the trauma of an operation, but I thought with my heart which said do anything to save him. It is not that the dog has been saved it is, "for how long and how will his quality of life be after the op". My heart is telling me that if Shadow has to be put to sleep as the wobblers progresses, then put me to sleep as well cos this is one hurt too many for me to bear. My head tells me that it is my duty and responsibility to do what is best for the dog and to cause him as little suffering as possible. You know I have worked with many sick and frail elderly people who were living with the utmost pain and suffering complete loss of dignity. They have begged all and sundry to end their lives but it is not allowed, so humans can suffer until the end. With a dog we have the choice to make that all important decision. I just know that Shadow will not be happy if he cannot run free and if his life is to be changed in any way. No one can wave a magic wand and make everything OK. Whatever path you choose to take will be the right one for you. There are no right or wrong decisions. My heart goes out to you and your Dobe. Please keep in touch, and maybe we can help each other through this difficult time.

dog lover.

[Kelley]

nThank you for your kind words, its so good to have someone to talk to who knows what i'm going through.

I think i might have got it wrong about the fluid, its the bit in between the vertabrae that he said could be taken away, not sure if its fluid, more like a jelly type.  Unfortunately when he was telling me I was trying so hard not to show a reaction so Miah wasnt aware (although I know she probably was) I think I've got a little mixed up.  He did say that it wasn't a guaranteed operation as it can then put pressure on the vertabrae at either side of the affected ones which can come back, but he also said she might be ok and not have any signs at all.  There were also the benefits of not operating such as it might only get slightly worse but not enough to affect her for the rest of her life, but then there was also the possibility that she could twist or turn the wrong way to trigger it off like it has done recently and cause parallysis.

I've just got so much going through my head at the moment I dont know if its right or wrong what decision i've mde to have the op, I dont even know if its my final one.  I might ring the vet in the week to see if I can have the information given again now that its sunk in and I might be able to take in more information.

I fully understand what you say about what the dog needs and agree but its such a load to take on yourself that you hold this decision on a life, I dont know if thats the right thing to say but i think you'll know what I mean as you've covered how I feel below..

''My heart is telling me that if Shadow has to be put to sleep as the wobblers progresses, then put me to sleep as well cos this is one hurt too many for me to bear. My head tells me that it is my duty and responsibility to do what is best for the dog and to cause him as little suffering as possible''

Miah was a rescue dog and we got her at 4 months, she had been beaten by a man and was so scared she used to grind her teeth on the plaster when any man came into the house (my partner iuncluded).  I took time off work and spent a lot of time taking her out and spending time with her and my other dog (Jack Russell called Ellie) that she really has clung to me, and although she is very independant now she always come flying to me for reassurance and i feel that I cant help her this time .

I really would appreciate it if we could stay in touch as I'd like to know how Shadow does and also just the knowledge of someone to talk to would be great.

Just so you know a bit more about us, I'm Kelley, 25 from Leeds, Miah is 6 and half black and tab dobie.   I've added my details onto here for MSN and my email address too in case you need to talk at anytime.

Thank youy again for your advice and support, i'm going to see what info I can find on the net about the surgery.  I'll keep you posted if I find anything that is useful.

Kelley

[K9 Obedience]

 Hello Kelly.
I know exactly what you are feeling and wish I could find some comforting words to say to you. I have not been back to the vets and I am taking each day as it comes with Shadow. It is early stages with him as it was only diagnosed because I took him to the vet with a lump on his leg which turned out to be arthritus due to an old injury. The vet noticed that he was "wobbling" and did some tests to confirm his suspicions. I just thought that all Doberman have that kind of silly walk!! Mostly Shadow is ok but I am not encouraging him to jump or letting him climb trees anymore. The night before last he was in pain and didn't want to move so I gave him a Zubrin tablet. The tablet works quite quickly and I notice that Shadow relaxes and goes to sleep. Yesterday he seemed a bit, "out of it" and just mooched around but this morning he is his old self, racing around with the other dogs. No one can say how fast the condition will progress. I have really searched the net and read an awful lot on Wobblers. Some owners say that their dog lived for years with little symptoms and in others it seems to progress rapidly. It differs in dogs that have been operated on. Some say their dogs recovered quickly and led good lives for up to five years and in others the operation did not work. The vet has said that I can change my mind at any time, and it is best to see how it goes first. Like you I have found the insurance policies to be useless as most only cover one condition for a year. You get what you pay for. So if you choose the cheaper monthly rates of around £7-10, they do not cover much. Pet Plan and similar are excellent. They cover a condition for life, but cost more per month. Seeing as I allready insure five dogs I didn't bother with Shadow. Sod's law, isn't it. The ones that are insured are perfectly healthy. Still my decision not to operate has nothing to do with money. I would find it somehow even if it meant selling personal stuff or remortaging the house.
My dear mother speant 3 years at the end of her life on life support machines, unable to drink, eat, or even move a finger. When she developed bronchitis, the consultant gave me the option of them treating the condition with antibiotics or just giving pain relief and nursing care and letting her die. Whether anyone thinks my decision was wrong is immaterial to me. I decided that my mother had no quality of life. She could not even speak or see me. I took the latter option and allowed her to pass away peacefully. Do you not think that over the years I have questioned my decision? Of course I have which is why I know I am making the right decision with Shadow. I believe so strongly that quality of life matters not quantity. If the vet cannot give me assurance of the dog making a quick and good recovery and have a few years of happy life then I have no choice but to end his life. I want to be like you and let him have the operation but I just can't. I see you as being the brave one and it is like I am not prepared to fight for the dog as you are for Miah. I am glad that through this forum we are able to talk like this. I find it helps me as probably you do too. Give Miah a big hug for me.

dog lover.

[K9 Obedience]

Shadow has now actually fallen over a couple of times. At first I just thought he had stumbled as the dog has always been kind of clumsy, I think in general Doberman are, but this time he just seemed to drop down for no reason. It took him a couple of minutes to get up again. I just kept on walking as I do not want to fuss him too much at this stage, and he soon was back to trotting around. It is awful to feel so helpless and not know whether I am doing the right thing by not letting Shadow have the operation. I havent heard from you Kelly, has Miah had the op?
dog lover.

[Kelley]

Hi - sorry I havent been on, i've found this last week really hard to come to terms with whats been happening.  I'm not sure if its because i'm aware of the signs but i've really noticed her stumbling more and wanting to run and play with my Jack Russell but not being able to.

Miah has gone in for the op today, so i've been in a bit of a state this morning but a friend come iwth me and she helped me keep my head until I'd left Miah as she's really affected when I get upset - she gets scared and panics more so it was something i really had to focus on.  I've been in contact with the vet at 6.30pm tonight and he said she was coming around but 2 of the discs were affected so he's had to remove them both.

He showed me some mylegram (not sure if its spelt like that) xray's of another dog that he had operated on who had all of a sudden become paralysed on Friday, she was operated on immediately and began walking agian last night.  This has helped me keep positive as i've already met 2 of his patients who have both had positive outcome from the surgery, its just the long term affects that are worrying me now.

He's recommended that I dont see her, which I do agree with as I do think she will end up going backwards if she thinks i've left her again, but its such hard work not having her here. I've already put her feed out tonight thinking she was here, and have a few seconds where i'm looking for her.

I'll try and update as much as I can but i'm not sure how much info i'll get as I know she will get worse tomorrow before she gets better so i'm not doing too well on the communication side of things  my head is all over the place

I hope Shadow is doing ok, I do think you are so brave too opting to see how things go.  I just wish that something could be identified as a cure or preventative measure that could be available for puppies, as i'd never wish these feelings on my worse enemy.

If I can i'll try and scan her Mylegram xrays to show you what hers looked like.

Love
Kelley (& Miah)

[K9 Obedience]

Kelly, my heart goes out to you and I am really praying that Miah comes through this. It is best if you dont go and see her as it does unsettle an animal to have its owner come and go. I sense that you are trying not to break down and lose control and the dog will pick up on your emotions. I am sure the staff will be keeping her comfortable so it is best to leave Miah to recover. She will probably be asleep most of the time anyway. My vet never said anything to me about removing vertibrae, so I wonder if each case is different.
My thoughts are with you,
dog lover.

[Kelley]

I've just had a call from the vet again, he's said that she has come round and is alert and eating, however she still doesnt seem able to stand.
He did say this was expected and that she should be up on her feet in the next couple of days.

I found this online last night which shows an xray which is very similar to the other dog's xrays i saw...

http://www.animalmr.com/wobbler_case_study.html

Miah had discs affected between c5 and c6 and then also c6 and c7.

I'll try and update once I hear anything else, fingers crossed she'll be home soon. 

How's Shadow managing? - thinking of him and the dippy dobie walk that i'm missing so much!

Kelley

[Big Dog]

The pack is pulling for you - glad to hear a bit of good news!

[Kelley]

thanks for your support Big Dog - its much appreciated

Kelley

[K9 Obedience]

I am glad she has recovered from the anesthetic, as that is always a worry. Has she eaten or drunk anything yet? I pray that you have more good news for us today.

dog lover.