doberman forum

[K9 Obedience]

I was wondering if any of the members did canine sports with their Doberman, apart from Schutzhund. We enjoy doing Agility, and Shadow can easily match the Border Collies when jumping. Admittedly he is not as agile on the quick turns, and he often enters the tunnel with such gusto, that it tangles him up as he exits. He is such a, "neat" jumper, with his feet well tucked up, looking rather like a horse jumping. This is where the advantages of him having his tail comes in. The tail definatly is used as the body turns and twists for the next jump. Shadow was always seen as a bit of a reject Doberman up till now. Many people thought he was strange and questioned his breeding!! Now the UK is banning the docking of tails, Shadow will be amongst the few Doberman, leading the way forward, and soon I will no longer have to explain to idiots that my dog is in fact a pure bred Doberman.

dog lover 

[Dog Training]

Good for you, sometimes docking is for practical reasons (doesn't mean it is right but at least gives a valid argument!) and sometimes for human fashion consciousness which i think is a criminal. Dogs don't go to McDonals and wear Nike, altough i am sure by 2010 they will try to change that! Dogs are certainly more agile with tail, i have a rottie cross Dane and he can gallop and turn like a greyhound despite his muscular 60kgs! He has caught up with a deer before, until i called him off which he obeyed perfectly for a change!

BigDog - thanks for your post about Probiotics, we in the UK often don't have access to some of the wonderful products you get over there, i will look into this and see if they are available in the UK.

All the best, home now with new baby after 3 weeks in special care. Moving house tomorrow though and haven't started packing yet so best get on!!
Back soon

[Big Dog]

Glad your family is back and sounding on the mend!

Good luck on the move - that's never heaps o' fun.

[Dog Training]

Thanks BD. No it isn't fun, but at least the new place has 3 huge stables and a large dog run and kennels!! Maybe i can start doing what i always dreamed of doing....taking dogs that are going to be put down due to behaviour problems, fixing them then rehoming them with GOOD homes. Trouble is i don't think i could ever get to know a dog that well, and then give it away. Maybe that's why i have 6 dogs, nearly all of whom were going to be put down!!
Thanks for your comments, baby is still almost see-thru as very anemic but red blood is starting to be made without transfusions now so hopefully only one more transfusion needed. Take care, back soon

[Big Dog]

Well the dog pack here is sending you and your new baby the best of thoughts.

And stables? I did not know you were also "horse people."

You might like a horse picture and humor site I started - just for laughes - but there is a bit of a training element too.

www.StupidHorseTricks.com

Take good care of that little one.

[K9 Obedience]

 What a glutton for punisment you are! A new Baby and Moving House!!! Are you mad? I get palpatations just thinking about all that stress. I am so glad that the new Baby is home and on the mend. How are the dogs with this new addition to your, "pack." I really wish you all the best and hope everything goes smoothly.

  dog lover

[Dog Training]

Yes! remember the last time we spoke on the phone about the site and i mentioned "things are a bit hectic here right now" well now you know what i meant!! Dogs are fine, bit curous about the funny noises but as you know i have been here before and nothing is a problem for me when it comes to dogs, i just love the darn things! Some people call me names when they here what a collection of large, sometimes nasty dogs i have whilst having two tiny babies!! Do these people think dogs don't know what is IN and OUT of the pack?! And as if i would risk harming my own children. Anyway, hope you are well. i just posted a bit about dog training on another topic, think it is about the US dog whisperer in the news over cruelty case, so go have a look , i am sure you could offer some valid words on training methods and ideas. Take care...off to pack up my office now so won't be around for a few days...

[K9 Obedience]

  I found that feeding my Doberman the dried kibble type dog food made the, "wind" problem worse. The stink bombs he dropped were awful, especially as he did it every time he met someone out walking. I tried all the more well known, (and expensive) brands of food but it made no difference. I am now feeding him a more natural diet, blocks of tripe, raw meaty bones, porridge, and grated raw vegetables. Has it cured the problem? No he still STINKS, and if anyone has found the solution to this, "windy" problem, please let me know. All Doberman owners seem to agree on this, so it is not just down to a particular food or lifestyle.
  dog lover

[Dog Training]

First and foremost dogs are Carnivores, NOT omnivores, so whilst you probably are trying to give him a 'balanced' diet with the raw veg and porridge, you are actually giving him an unbalanced diet. dogs don't eat wheat and oats and stuff like that, nor do they plant, water, grow and harvest them! A balanced diet is MEAT and nothing else, if they should have anything added to the meat at all it should only be something as plain and simple as you can find. vegetables are fine for dogs, but they are not part of the natural diet. Just as cream cakes are 'fine' for dogs (i.e. they will eat it and not be poisoned) but it is not part of their natural diet. Dobermanns do have troublesome bowels. I would suggest (if you can afford it) to ONLY give meat. That means ONLY ONLY ONLY give that dog meat. I don't know if you can do this, many owners tell me they ONLY feed their dog a certain thing, but when i visit their home i often notice the odd bread crust, the odd spot of gravy, a few chips or most often, the leftovers from various meals. Leftovers from proper meals are fine by me to give to a dog (so long as it is not handed down from the table but saved and given later) but all the others are no good. With Shadow though, i would suggest that any bread or similar things contain a lot of yeast and will cause bowel symptoms. So, NO bread, not a single square inch! And veg can be similar as it contains a lot of plant material which dogs only really eat as an additive, not on a daily  basis. If you must add something to his meat then i would suggest totally plain rice or pasta, whilst they are not technically part of a natural canine diet, they are full of protein and you have already mentioned how Shadow is getting light and saggy skinned. He will digest all that protein and it shouldn't cause a problem, but just make sure you give him his meal or meals as normal each day, but keep it FULL of meat, unprocessed and raw and not out of a tin, and then refrain from giving a SINGLE THING outside of his bowl. This will also do wonders for obedience and bond. Food in a bowl, nothing else, Promise?!
Another thing which will definitely cause part of your problem is your routine. i know you walk the dog about 60 million times a day on a concrete ticklist and if you miss one you think you are a bad owner. Well whilst i would rarely tell anyone this as most dogs don't get enough exercise, you CAN exercise a dog too much, but don't tell anyone i said that! In particular with your case, you have had collies and GSDs or GSD crosses all your life if i remember rightly and the last time i saw your collies they looked like perfect collies which means lean mean running machines. They will whip round the fields ALL DAY long, but since you got Shadow i think you have kept the same routine and it is simply not what Dobes were bred for. Yes they are remarkably agile and extremely fit, but they are NOT Border Collies and they will not cover 10 or 15 miles a day of short burst running without doing some harm. Your collies will keep him moving a lot more than he would if you only had Shadow and no other dogs. If he was an only dog he would spend a lot more time trotting at your heels than chasing off after rabbits and squirrels. This could be the reason his weight has come down. If memory serves, i think you rescued shadow around 2 years ago. and only recently his weight has started dropping off despite increased meat in his diet and more bulk in food. i think last year you only had Shadow and an old Collie but you now have a collie puppy in the house (your daughters i think) but if he is with you and Shadow on walks then Shadow will be quietly and discreetly covering probably twice as much distance each day than he did before. In other words, in this rare case of dogs  being given MORE of the stuff we usually have to convince owners to give their dogs (exercise) i actually think you are overdoing it with him. This relates back to the bowel thing too, you walk your dogs what 3 times a day? This is wonderful but i know you have nowhere for them to go to toilet at home which may be why you walk so often. Dobermanns in my experience need to be able to just squat and do their business whenever they feel inclined. THIS is the KEY thing which i have often heard reduces the smelly bowels. Collies are easy to train to go to the loo every 8 hours or 4 hours or whatever on a walk, although i don't think it is ideally natural, but Shadow has tricky bowels at the best of times, and it would really help if you had a patch of your garden where he could do his business whenever he wanted. Have you heard of Pee Posts? These are little plastic posts you put in your garden and they contain pheremones or some scents to encourage dogs to do their business next to them. Maybe worth a try? i have never used one, but interested to see if they work.
One final thing you could try is changing his feeding. I think you probably feed him 2 or 3 times day as do most people. Maybe try giving him a LARGE breakfast both his meals in one, then let him lie down for half an hour and then walk him ON LEAD ONLY until you are in the fields where he normally does his business, and then let him off to go and leave his mark. It will unsettle him slightly as does any change in routine (which is why I HATE ROUTINES WITH DOGS!!) but after a few days or week at the most you should find that his digestive system is working differently and rather than having faeces moving through his guts almost constantly, it will be one big meal, one big pile, and one empty dog hopefully! This technique worked really well with a severely amaciated GSD we tried to help many years ago. He was terribly thin but wouldn't eat. Basically the rescue shelter had worked so hard to get him to put weight on, that they had desensitised him to food so when we suggested this routine of effectively starving the dog for 16 hours a day and giving him FULL bowels for the other 8 hours, they weren't too keen but they tried it and it worked wonders. In that case he was given RAW tripe and nothing else, not a thing. His weight came steadily from 17 kilos (yes for a LARGE GSD!) up to 34 kilos and he looked fantastic, still got a photo of him somewhere, superb dog. Anyway, this might be worth considering. If you think of trying it, give me a call some time or PM me and i will work out a tailored plan for Shadow as he is a tremendous dog (can't believe you haven't put a photo up of him yet here) and he really needs to get his weight back, to anyone else reading this, I AM NOT TRYING TO GET A DOG FAT!!! This dog was in superb athletic condition and he is now getting skinny which as any Dobe owner knows they are prone to doing sometimes, but this is worse and needs sorting out.
You must get on top of this problem now and a combination of reduced exercise and dietary improvement is essential to do this. When i say less exercise (for the benefit of those busybodies out there!) i mean just as much time out of the house with you, but less of it spent chasing around with those collies and more of it spent one on one with you, mostly on a lead although i am sure if you and the dog were alone in the fields he wouldn't leave your side for a second.
Hope that helps, let me know how you get on, email me some time with piccies!
Martin

[Dog Training]

P.S. Message for Big Dog, just read your post up there higher up!! No i am not horsey person! Although if i had the money i would be! No we just have use of two empty old stables which are converted to workshops and they are great for dogs to lay down after a walk and to dry off. Also got a proper purpose build dog kennel which was for the hunt dogs back in the days of orribile fox hunting over here! The dogs are in seventh heaven! We have nearly finished unpacking, but as you can my PC is back on and broadband connected, priorities!!
Chat again soon

[K9 Obedience]

I agree that dogs thrive best on a meat diet, especially a Doberman, but disagree that dogs have evolved to eat only MEAT. Wild canine relatives of dogs, wolves and foxes, catch and eat ALL of their prey. Therefore they are eating grasses and plants in the intestines of these animals. Wolves eat mice, birds and fish, when their regular food source of larger prey, has migrated. Their digestion is very efficent. They digest all but 5% of the kill. Any splinters of bone become wrapped in undigested hair and fur which protects the intestines from damage. Wild canines also eat fruis, berries and other plant materials on a regular basis. Unless dog owners have access to freshly killed rabbits and other prey, which will provide ALL the vitamins, minerals, carbohydrates, and protein the dog needs then one can only try to substitute their diet with as much raw, organic, meat and plant materials as possible. I would love to be able to feed my Doberman a freshly killed rabbit or even better to be able to let him catch his own meals. He would still have the same smelly, "wind" problem. Research has shown that the Doberman has a hereditary problem with the whole digestive system. They are prone to stomach upsets, due to poor gastric juices. Canines have a shorter digestive tract than humans do. They also have much stronger stomach acid that enables them to digest raw bones quickly. The digested material is absorbed into the blood stream, and the waste is passed through the intestines faster compared to the human digestive system. Doberman tend to swallow huge amounts of air as they eat, which adds to the, "wind" problem. I know why it happens, I just wondered if anyone had found anything that works in making the dog a bit easier to live with.   dog lover.

[Dog Training]

Yes it is true they can digest a lot of things, but as i said, when you have the choice of all the ways in the world of feeding dogs, veg matter is not really needed but is okay in the proportions which dogs' ancestors would have eaten, i.e. around 5% which means if your dog eats 2 kilos of meat a day, he should only have aruond 100 grams which is very little, and even this is not needed at all, it just helps to fill the bowl and the psychological stomach of both owner and dog! I would however say that rice or pasta is ten times better than even the best modern compressed dry mixer to go with the meat (which is mostly sawdust and what 'chicken' content it states is actually bones and feathers crushed, all the slithers of real meat and even internal organs go into human foods, urrgghh! The main thing i am warning against is PROCESSED non meat matter, bread being the most obvious. Bread is a processed mixture of yeast and grain which is definitely going to make digestive systems of all kinds struggle if not used to them, and as you state the Dobe has trouble with digestion from birth in comparison to some other breeds so it is better to make it easier on them, as easy as possible.
i may have a source for whole rabbits, and you are right there is simply nothing better than full whole fresh killed furry animals for proper working dogs to eat like your Dobe. I am sure he will love them and they really will help fill him out. The oils in the rabbits skin will help the dogs coat condition and waterproofing as well, we noticed a huge improvement in coat condition with our GSDs when we started them on rabbits. They absolutely adore them, and usually go head first which is amazing how their instincts naturally know where the most protein is (brain) when they have never even seen a rabbit ever before. One other good method is to find a local butcher, chinese restaurant, indian restaurant or similar and ask them if they would save all their meat cuts for you, they regularly throw away good chicken (RAW ONLY) carcasses and cuts of fat from beef and lamb, if you offer to take these off their hands and order a take away each time you collect your bag of dog food, i am sure you will find a good source that way.
All in all, i think Dobes need a lot of exercise and plenty of food rather than strict diet and few or no walks, in fact i would say that for any breed but especially the Dobe and other large guarding or working breeds. However in your case i would say Shadow is certainly getting too much distance and energy expenditure each day, and i wouldn't be surprised if he could easily gobble down 4 kilos of meat a day on his current exercise regime. When you notice dietary problems and coat losing condition in dogs which are fully exercised and well fed, it often can mean their owner is actually trying to be TOO generous with the exercise and whilst i would rarely see a case of this, they do crop up sometimes from extremely conscientious owners and i think this is the case with you and Shadow. More meat is expensive and unnecessary, a little less exercise, or if you enjoy your walks, make them one on one with Shadow so he spends less time chasing the other dogs and this will also cement the bond even more between you.

[kanethedobe]

My Dobe used to have bad gas so I kept changing his diet to fix the problem, I started out on IAMS large breed formula and went to other brands, some more expensive and some just bargain walmart brands but nothing was working, then I tryed Hills Science diet and He hasnt had any stink bombs since.

[Dog Training]

Great thanks! We have Hills Science Plan over here! I would always recommend a natural meat diet, but with Dobes, they have such fussy guts, that when you find a magic mixture, best to share for the great nasal benefit of other dobe owners!!
Thanks for that relief!!

[kanethedobe]

I do feed meat but not as often as I would like, my Boys, Both Dobe's, pork and Beef products and many times they catch there own food in the yard, they seem to enjoy eatting a good bird every now and again.